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22 January 2007

Comments

Chris

I know how you feel... I understand women perfectly until I date them. Even when we speak the same language (gaming and Star Wars and other nerdisms), I am always expecting the other shoe to drop (though I have never had the footwear issue... just complaints that I should wear socks when it was freezing :)

It is a tough thing walking that tightrope... but sometimes the fall makes you appreciate the high wire act in the first place.

Amber

Looks like you did a little cleaning house, Phil. It looks nice and great pic!

Your questions...

They seriously make me want to stand up on a soapbox. This is one of my biggest pet peeves with a relationship. I am all too familiar with that uncomfortable feeling - the one that makes you feel like you're walking a tight rope; one wrong move and you're a goner!

I don't understand why men and women can't just be HONEST with one another. COMMUNICATE how you feel. Don't pile shit up, don't let it simmer, speak up. We all have voices and the majority of us have rational thoughts. You must articulate them to your Significant Other. They are not mind readers. You have no business getting pissed if they cannot read your thoughts and know exactly why you're upset or whatever. This is a lot for women. Men, you need to grab your sac and speak up. She may get upset and you might spend the night on the couch (if this is reoccuring, you might consider a new dating partner. If she isn't open to, basically constructive criticism and furthering your relationship by being able to listen to you and respond in a mature way, well... she's probably not going to change).

Both genders need to respect the other. Talking down, name calling, treating them like they're stupid or stereotyping them... well, it's just not cool. This person is supposed to be special and that's how they need to be treated. If you have an issue, talk about it, work it out. If it's not something that can be worked out, then move on for the love of God and stop wasting time.

Now, if you're not quite in the relationship stage yet and you're just feeling someone out, then questions as a test aka the test with a hidden agenda is totally acceptable. You need to figure out whether or not this is someone you can see yourself with in the future. Unless you're just out for some fun. But if you're at the age where the thought of settling down and the like has started to be a part of your thoughts more often than not, you're probably not going to want to date someone "just for fun." An example of these questions are: "Do you like kids?" aka "can you see yourself with a couple eventually?" "What do you want to be when you 'grow up'"? aka "Are you going to be one of those pathetic, lazy, jerks who won't get a job because you want to play video games all day and I have to work full time to support both of us while living in your mother's basement for the rest of our lives?" And so on.

Summary: If you're in the pre-dating stage, feel each other out with subtle questions that will get him to open up a little and you can judge by his responses whether or not you can see yourself with this person in the future. Depending on what your intentions are by getting into the dating scene, i.e. fun, marriage, serious relationship, etc.

If you're in the relationship stage, then you've already decided that you can see yourself being with this person. You've made a choice so do your best to make it work. This means respecting the other person, not putting unreasonable demands on one another, and COMMUNICATING - no matter how hard it may be to do so, on either side. Be mature, we're all supposed to be adults now...

See, it's not that confusing... right? :)

Whew, sorry for the novel in your comments, Phil. I have some definite opinions about this subject... :P

mez

I think Amb pretty much said it all there. yep.

This is how I understand it. Men don't get women because women are pretty much unpredictable (in the eyes of men). Just when you think we want one thing we turn around and want something else.

I have a similarly hard time understanding a bloke in that he might not be unpredictable - but the fact that they are so bloody predictable AND I just don't GET why they're that way. lol. I'm one of those people that needs to know why something is in order to understand how it works - the formula means nothing without it. That's just me though. Not sure about the rest of the women out there.

As I understand men just wish they *had* a formula to understand women and so then they'd use the formula and it wouldn't be so much of an issue!

Judging someone completely on their footwear is just bloody ridiculous, I think. It's the same as a guy judging a girl's whole personality based on how beautiful or ugly she is and oh wait..that shit never happens does it? ;)

Assessment questions: I think it's bound to happen. I do know people who have certain things they need to find out about - but they seem to be questions that people end up asking to people they don't know very well regardless of gender! I DON'T have a list that I need to find out in order to tick the boxes per se. But obviously there's a filtration process, otherwise everyone would just end up with anyone without discrimination (hey, that might be a good thing!). So while I don't have a list of questions if a guy made a comment about how women are like pieces of meat waiting to be devoured then I'd certainly cross him right off my list and keep moving.

mez

err, okay Amb apparently said it all but I had to write an essay anyway. lol.

Al

Phil, take it from someone who has been happily married for 6 years and is expecting his first child...

I'm no closer to understanding now than I was 6 years ago.

Sarah

I think Mez summed up the problem men have with women: Women are always changing their minds. We're unpredictable and at times, flaky. I understand that it gets frustrating; I get frustrated myself for being that way.

I hope I didn't upset you or thing I was judging you on your footwear post, I thought it was all in good fun :P

BTW- Women ALWAYS prefer the "Log Song" to "Happy Happy Joy Joy" :)

MadameBoffin

Just like the girls have already said, you're not mining the conversation with tests... it's not (or shouldn't be) a vicious game looking to see you fail but, when you meet someone new, there is a filtration process - you basically need to know if you're both on the same page.

And yes - a Rosetta Stone is absolutely necessary because I, for one, will NEVER understand men.

Phil

Chris - Nice point. What's the fun without the danger of falling? As long as you don't get pushed!

Amber - I love your diatribes. Diatribe on! I can give you a reason why - while dating the default position is do the least scary thing. ie it's less scary not to call than to call and unfortunately it's less scary to say I love you when you don't really care about her or him. Fear is great motivated.

I'd like to say this is my brilliant insight but it's not. Credit to someone way smarter than me.

Mez - Ok I can answer the male predictability.

It worked before, it will work again!

For example my Da always gives Ma white chrysanthemums. ALWAYS. I asked him why and he said she absolutely adored getting them on their second date in 1965. It doesn't bear imagining what else occurred on their second date to leave such a strong imprint on his mind.

I presume Ma loves all types of flowers but to Da, it's chrysanthemums or nothing. I've seen him panic if the florist is out of stock around their wedding anniversary.

Al - Kick me when I'm down, that's it I give up! However my Canadian friend I think you know something aboot women. Tanya, 6 years and impending bub speaks to this!

Sarah - The shoe posts were immense fun. The kernel of truth in that debate was while I may not put much thought into something doesn't mean others are automatically the same.

You'll be pleased to know I bought a new pair of shoes last week (not Deckkies). So I now own a grand total of 5 pairs of shoes.

MadamB - Good to hear that conversation is filtration and not a test. A friend of mine (Hi Kat!) used to ask about movie tastes as a bit of a test but with good reason. She went out with a guy on a blind date. Nice enough but with no sparks however he kept sending her poetry afterwards.... in Klingon.

ChrisTX

Um, isn't Klingon poetry a bit like Vogon poetry? :)

I also know the strangeness of conversation presumed as flirtation, and then I am told by others (not the conversee) that I was flirting... and I think 'Was I?'

I'm glad I'm high on pain meds at the moment, or I would have something more interesting to say...

Amber

Phil, I've heard the word "diatribe" before, but after reading your response, I realized I didn't have a frickin clue what it meant. So, according to dictionary.com, I just have to say I like the last one the best: diatribe

noun
thunderous verbal attack

The others were talking about it being a bitter, sharply abusive, denunciation.

So is it a good thing or a bad thing?

This is what happens when you're operating on 3.5hrs of sleep and sitting at work with a headache. I didn't even get no sleep and a headache by doing something FUN either; it's called i-n-s-o-m-n-i-a. But yeah, you get stupid and your brain splutters on you when you try to think.

Sorry that you're on the receiving end of this. :P

Sarah

I WANNA SEE THE SHOES!

Cafrine

I don't really have much to say on this except to say that I've pretty much stayed away from the whole dating thing because of the whole audition feeling thing. I'm fairly sure makes me an enormous coward. I much much much prefer the "really good friends who fart in front of each other and know everything and have no secrets (well, maybe some) and then get together" method. Although, I have to say, that hasn't really worked out so superbly well for me either.

P.S. Jumped out of my seat in unexpected fright when I saw the new layout. I'm pretty sure that makes me an idiot! :o) Very pretty though!

awittykitty

I've almost always dated men I've worked with so I could observe them first and get to know them. Of course I haven't worked in nearly 6 years now (F/T that is), so its been slim pickings. My main requirement is a good sense of humor. And just so you know, I would never hold anyone up to my first boyfriend...he was gay.

Phil

Chris - Ha I know that pain.

Amber - Thunderous verbal attack works for me!

Sarah - Hee hee hee. No.

Caf - That method does work. For me about every five years. Surely I'm due!

Awitty - I could never date someone I work with. It feels too incestious and icky. Meet through work, sure but there will never be a Pam to my Jim.

Fitena

Hey there!

First of all thanks for visiting. Much appreciated.

I think that the main "problem" is that we make up our minds about the person we would date (he'd talk like this, smell good, make me laugh) and when we do meet someone we unconsciouly (or not) try to mould him to fit the picture of him we have in our mind. At least this is how I think I "work".
And you end up confused because you feel you're not doing the right moves or saying the right things at the right time but you're not sure beceuse she's cetainly not telling you. Its the subtilité you see!

Fitèna

steph

What a great post. But don't forget, the guy in the equation is also doing a little auditioning himself, although his inner voice probably goes along the lines of, "I wonder if she swallows".

Jen

I must confess, I am all about little tests, I am starting to realise it's extremely unfair to dismiss people because they can't read my mind, I also realised I would hate someone who could read my mind, so esentially I have no idea what I want.

To be fair though, I thought I understood boys, but the behaviour of a certain few leaves me entirely dumbfounded, so for me at least, it's a two way street.

I don't really understand the idea of trying to say the right thing, or do the right thing to try and impress someone, unless you are prepared to maintain that for the entire duration of a relationship, isn't it a bit pointless? I understand maybe pretending you would never leave yesterday's undies on the bedroom floor or that you just adore washing dishes but things that require you to play up (or down) major parts of your personality seem entirely pointless.

This may explain why I've been single for a while, but I'd rather someone take me as I am than try and make myself into a whole new person.

P.S You will go SO far realising the friends make the final call, so many guys don't realise the very powerful position that Bestie's hold. They can make or break you.

P.P.S Are you still certain for NF3?

ChickyBabe

I think male or female we all have these lists that we tick, even on a subconscious level. Then you might meet someone who doesn't fit your idea of perfection and you fall in love. Even if he wears bad footwear.

Kitten Rex

Don't expect much and he/she will never disappoint. Sometimes, he/she may even impress you. Well, that's what my mummy says.

Phil

Fitena - I like what you say and you've given me a great idea for another post!

Steph - Ha.... and maybe a little true.

D'Jen - I'm there for NF3! That's a good attitude to have.

CB - I can understand some unconcious check lists like age for example. I have a mate who's been online dating and is so disappointed that 20 year old girls don't go for 37 year old single fathers. Errr do I really have to explain this one to him?

KittenR- V. is a smart woman Rex. Listen to her unless she has you neutered.

egan

Phil - this is very good stuff. Je pense que nous devons parler en français. Comprenez-vous? Les filles aiment les hommes qui parlent français. Or so I've heard.

ChrisTx

Sometimes, 18 year olds go for exceedingly smart 33 (almost 34) year old Babylon 5 fans (is that wrong, btw? :)

Egan- I wish my French were better myself, I hear the 'filles' love a good 'chanson de geste'.

mez

Egan that's true but the snootiness puts us off ;)

egan

Mez, damn you're busting my chops. Not all French people are snooty, sacré bleu!

Phil, see how Mez is all excited now? French is zee language d'amour.

Phil

Egan - I take my French/Italian speaking cues from A Fish Called Wanda. " Hasn't worked yet but fingers crossed!

Chris - It's never wrong. Statutary laws withstanding.

Mez - Parmagana casserole, mon appertife?

Egan - So that's why you're expecting Little E.

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